tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post8571335023681390201..comments2024-03-29T15:04:20.549+11:00Comments on ART and ARCHITECTURE, mainly: Why did Breaker Morant and Daisy Bates marry????Helshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02849907428208235392noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-28778833786691001612017-08-01T10:45:14.976+10:002017-08-01T10:45:14.976+10:00A chance discovery of a treasure trove of films ha...A chance discovery of a treasure trove of films has shed new light on the saga of Harry Breaker Morant and his sidekick Peter Handcock. The detailed evidence of Muir Churton, who fought with the infamous Bushveldt Carbineers during the latter stages of the Boer War, is captured on film made in 1973. At 19 Churton was the youngest member of the BVC when he joined up in 1901. He was 91 when the film was made and died soon afterwards.<br /><br />See the complete story written by Mark Day in The Australian, 29th July, 2017.Josephnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-62328585459759182222016-08-28T10:37:19.928+10:002016-08-28T10:37:19.928+10:00Anon
Thank you. I agree that if we want to write ...Anon<br /><br />Thank you. I agree that if we want to write half way decent history, we need to start with the protagonists' own written works. When I read The Passing of the Aborigine two years ago, it hid as much about Daisy Bates as it told! Not censorship in any sense, but certainly a way of keeping any messy life details to herself.<br /><br />When I was writing up Percy Grainger's biography, I had the same sense of eccentricity and intrigue.Helshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02849907428208235392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-21039998002720113872016-08-28T09:45:58.585+10:002016-08-28T09:45:58.585+10:00As a school child, 1966 ish, we were told of Dais...As a school child, 1966 ish, we were told of Daisy Bates. It was not until adulthood I had even heard of Breaker Morant, and of course, a movie by that name was what made me aware of him. <br />I have read the Passing of the Aborigine, by Daisy Bates. It is free to download, http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks04/0400661.txt It was her autobiography. I read some reference, ever so briefly, about "some man", but she made no real reference to romances or family. <br />I too got the impression that she was an eccentric, with a goodly heart, but not for the world whence she came, or any of the worlds she tried beforehand. Not with the religious order where she sought refuge in WA. Not for Qld outback town life, not for many other places. <br />She seemed to have made no reference to or need for any type of family and seemed to be glad to see the back of everywhere she went. <br />It is a shame to not know what it was that she ran from in the UK. It must have been pretty traumatic, but could give a greater insight into "homelessness" in women.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-74282808842094642602014-05-08T12:39:51.491+10:002014-05-08T12:39:51.491+10:00Gregory
thank you. I really valued seeing the fil...Gregory<br /><br />thank you. I really valued seeing the film last night and hearing the discussion later. But the question should not be "should The Breaker be celebrated as a hero - or condemned as a war criminal?" <br /><br />Rather the questions should be <br />1. was this war immoral and illegal? <br />2. were Kitchener's orders immoral and illegal? and <br />3. if a junior soldier receives an illegal order, what can he do about it?<br />Helshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02849907428208235392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-33521924239071867072014-04-08T16:35:09.162+10:002014-04-08T16:35:09.162+10:00Helen
I though you might be interested in this ev...Helen<br /><br />I though you might be interested in this event.<br /><br />"Breaker Morant, the Retrial"<br />at NOVA CINEMA- CARLTON<br />7th MAY 2014 at 6.30pm<br /><br />Followed by a Q&A with host Neil Pigot, Gregory Miller Producer & Co-director, Nick Bleszynski Co-Director and a leading Military Legal advocateGregory Millernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-15395705547842368482013-04-01T02:25:46.331+11:002013-04-01T02:25:46.331+11:00Paul
Once he arrived in Australia, Breaker Morant...Paul<br /><br />Once he arrived in Australia, Breaker Morant's life was actually well documented. But I agree that ever since the film appeared, publications and public interest have focused almost entirely on his Boer War adventures. <br /><br />At least his literature e.g his bush poetry has been published and analysed.Helshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02849907428208235392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-12298905902827765332013-03-31T18:38:36.187+11:002013-03-31T18:38:36.187+11:00Most things written about 'The Breaker' ar...Most things written about 'The Breaker' ar about his death in South Africa. And yes, it seems he did shoot prisoners. For that he and Handcock paid the ultimate price. <br /><br />Nevertheless a major part of Harry's life is that of a bushman. Harry Morant, with Lance Skuthorpe and Adam Lindsay Gordon, are the three finest horseman Australia has ever produced. It's a shame this part of his life hasn't gotten more airtime or published copy. Paul Herringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00104498646691838121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-90926488101215995862013-03-13T10:09:25.827+11:002013-03-13T10:09:25.827+11:00Mandy
I would love to know the name of the film. ...Mandy<br /><br />I would love to know the name of the film. Even at this long distance (110+ years), it is always difficult to know what happened in the Boer War and even more difficult to understand the "other side".<br /><br />I studied years of British history at school, precious little Australian history and no South African history at all :(Helshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02849907428208235392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-49860151014809351792013-03-13T07:14:52.495+11:002013-03-13T07:14:52.495+11:00I watched an incredible South African film in abou...I watched an incredible South African film in about 1984 that held the same belief. I wish I could remember what it was called - it was so powerful and never left me. The film was about a British soldier falling in love with and sparing a Boer girl and her family despite the order to kill them on sight. <br /><br />It really wouldn't surprise me. My Afrikaans friends tell me of several stories of British atrocities that were passed down through the generations. My best friend's grandfather was born in a British concentration camp. <br /><br />This is a really interesting post! I followed the Green Left link and I remember hearing about the controversy surrounding Ms Bates before. Mandyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11931248631361366673noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-68988624308641781352013-03-07T09:10:45.117+11:002013-03-07T09:10:45.117+11:00Parnassus
good on you for pointing out the connec...Parnassus<br /><br />good on you for pointing out the connection between the last two posts. I had forgotten totally. <br /><br />The Green Left reference was highly critical of Bates' thinking from 1899 on, saying "What Aborigines needed, believed this dedicated Empire loyalist and monarchist was an "English gentleman" to be put in charge, as was, she claimed against all evidence, so successful in "India, Africa and elsewhere [where] their rule was always beneficent, for only they can understand and control the native races".<br /><br />How our views towards colonialism have changed since 1899!Helshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02849907428208235392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-7659762510303635482013-03-07T03:52:58.925+11:002013-03-07T03:52:58.925+11:00Hello Hels, I enjoyed learning about Daisy Bates....Hello Hels, I enjoyed learning about Daisy Bates. Australia seems to have supplied the room and freedom to produce some extraordinary characters. <br /><br />'Anonymous' seems to be applying the investigative principles of your last post. One caveat before judging Bates is that sometimes sincere attitudes about people can seem patronizing years later, when overall standards have changed.<br />--Road to Parnassus Parnassushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08958901307538141468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-33234099037609096422013-03-06T13:20:41.439+11:002013-03-06T13:20:41.439+11:00Anon
thank you for taking the time to write it al...Anon<br /><br />thank you for taking the time to write it all up. You have made some excellent points.<br /><br />Some of it I did not know before eg her marriage to Ernest C Baglehole in Newtown in 1885. Some of it I did indeed know eg in 1936 she "dressed in a pristine coat and skirt and a turban which look pretty new to me, but not fashionable - she is choosing to dress like that, not from poverty but from eccentricity or her own personal style".<br /><br />The only thing we disagree on is Morant and Handcock being executed because they murdered Boer civilians, _not_ on the orders of their British commanders. <br />Helshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02849907428208235392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-88301930241717313532013-03-06T13:13:57.746+11:002013-03-06T13:13:57.746+11:00We Travel
I am guessing that because Morant was o...We Travel<br /><br />I am guessing that because Morant was only 20 when he married, he believed the older and more mature woman would make an honest man out of him.<br /><br />It didn't work :)Helshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02849907428208235392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-20851024615766175492013-03-06T13:09:06.110+11:002013-03-06T13:09:06.110+11:00Andrew
Whether modern thinkers admire her work or...Andrew<br /><br />Whether modern thinkers admire her work or not, she was very important. The Australian Women's Register puts it well. Daisy Bates conducted anthropological fieldwork amongst several Indigenous nations in western and southern Australia. She supported herself largely by writing articles for urban newspapers. Bates also published her work on Indigenous kinship systems, marriage laws, language and religion in books and articles. She was appointed a Commander of the Order of the British Empire (CBE) for Aboriginal welfare work in 1934.<br /><br />Helshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02849907428208235392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-63095221037941214112013-03-06T12:35:37.691+11:002013-03-06T12:35:37.691+11:00An accurate biography of Daisy Bates is yet to be ...An accurate biography of Daisy Bates is yet to be written. There is a lot of nonsense published on the internet, and in books about her. <br /><br />Daisy Bates' third marriage is well documented, you can find it in the NSW index of marriages online and purchase a copy, as I did. Daisy May O'Dwyer and Ernest C Baglehole. Newtown, 1885.<br /><br />I don't believe the marriage to Morant was her 'bit of rough', he was well-educated - better than Daisy, I would think. His behaviour was not really that of a gentleman, but I think his manners probably were. Her behaviour was not that of a lady - bigamous marriages are not the norm in well-regulated society. I think the reason Daisy ended up living with aborigines was because she was not capable of living in polite society. Three fleeting/failed marriages and a failed relationship with her son is fair evidence of that. The reason for this behaviour is not easy to discover, but I would agree with some childhood trauma as the likely cause.<br /><br />She lived in some ways as men do who camp alone along river banks and under railway bridges for years and years, as a hermit, but near the aborigines whom she patronised mercilessly and used as the subjects of her sensationalist 'journalism'.<br /><br />I'm not fully conversant with the reason people think she was a pauper. At her death she was eligible for an old age pension (did she refuse it?) AND she received a Commonwealth Literary pension. Not long before her death she was still writing for some South Australian newspaper - and I'll bet that wasn't fee free. She published a book in 1938, followed up by later editions, and must have received royalties. I think the whole idea of her poverty needs re-examination. <br /><br />The title of that book gives you a fair idea of her claims to be regarded as an anthropologist - "The Passing of the Aborigine". She was no scientist. <br /><br />I cannot imagine she was wearing clothes in 1951 that she brought with her from England 50 years earlier. They would have simply fallen to pieces. I have never seen her in photos wearing rags. She presumably just replaced them when they wore out with her eccentric choice. It is not unusual for people to stick with the fashion they wore when young.<br /><br />Here she is in 1936 dressed in a pristine coat and skirt and a turban which look pretty new to me, but not fashionable - she is choosing to dress like that, not from poverty but from eccentricity or her own personal style.<br />http://images.slsa.sa.gov.au/mpcimg/07000/B6799.htm <br /><br />If you google up a range of pictures, she always has different clothes and hats, in a similar style. Not old, but old-fashioned. It is not as if she was unwaged during that whole time.<br /><br />Morant and Handcock were executed because they murdered Boer civilians. The case is a complex one, but that basic fact remains.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-24592394558470294362013-03-06T09:46:48.591+11:002013-03-06T09:46:48.591+11:00The Australian War Memorial had some very colourfu...The Australian War Memorial had some very colourful stuff about Morant's skills with horses and women. But if he was a love em and leave em type of bloke, why marry anyone?We Travelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-42078731383169568562013-03-06T09:44:30.280+11:002013-03-06T09:44:30.280+11:00To my shame, I knew nothing of Daisy Bates. What a...To my shame, I knew nothing of Daisy Bates. What an extraordinary and un-celebrated woman.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com