tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post3897603769238793623..comments2024-03-29T15:04:20.549+11:00Comments on ART and ARCHITECTURE, mainly: Strasbourg’s Dancing Plague of 1518 - the devil, mass mania or ergot poisoning?Helshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02849907428208235392noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-40519527774866959772021-07-20T18:10:16.535+10:002021-07-20T18:10:16.535+10:00mem
I think we have learned NOTHING from previous...mem<br /><br />I think we have learned NOTHING from previous pandemics, especially when close dancing, too much alcohol, loud music and wild sex are concerned.Helshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02849907428208235392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-85968042758759198092021-07-20T16:21:26.689+10:002021-07-20T16:21:26.689+10:00Maybe with "freedom day" in the UK we wi...Maybe with "freedom day" in the UK we will see more crazed dancing . Apparently Night Clubs are delighted with Boris's move to open up everything memhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15192448988340897285noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-43951768212444584462021-07-20T01:21:48.741+10:002021-07-20T01:21:48.741+10:00bazza
I would give more information but I try to ...bazza<br /><br />I would give more information but I try to limit any post to 950 words, because that is how much people can easily read in blogs. In any case, since I retired from work, I love it when blog posts have promoted new learning :)<br /><br />Mass hysteria is an extraordinary phenomenon! When the Beatles first came to Melbourne, hundreds of thousands of girls screamed and screamed, while the ambulances waited to take them away. I realise that 2.5 hours of screaming was not as dangerous as a week of frantic dancing, but the loss of individual control back in 1964 was a wake-up call for my teenage mind.Helshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02849907428208235392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-32581434838377452442021-07-20T00:24:04.986+10:002021-07-20T00:24:04.986+10:00As so often with your posts Hel, I had to keep goi...As so often with your posts Hel, I had to keep going away to 'read-up' on things! So now I know all about ergot and ergot poisoning, of which I had never heard and also St Anthony's Fire and English Sweating Disease Although I did know about St Vitus Dance. So it took me a while to get through this article but I'm glad I did.<br />A modern interpretation would probably be mass hysteria triggered by a physical illness.<br /><b><a href="http://todiscoverice.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow"> CLICK HERE for Bazza’s jealously Jubilant Blog ‘To Discover Ice’</a></b>bazzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14794010156639774028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-35323260274756577872021-07-19T13:58:39.165+10:002021-07-19T13:58:39.165+10:00Britta
many thanks. Schwan kleb an/Swan Stick On ...Britta<br /><br />many thanks. Schwan kleb an/Swan Stick On is fascinating. Whoever touches the beautiful swan will have his hand firmly glued on and will never be able to walk away voluntarily. In this case, the townsfolk have no choice but to follow.<br /><br />They Shoot Horses demands the exhausted contestants to compete around the dance floor, with the losers eliminated. Even when contestants have fatal heart attacks during the races, the others have to keep on going. In this case the contestants choose to continue, for money or prestige or manic obsession, even though death is a definite risk. Helshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02849907428208235392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-5449470925646849772021-07-19T13:42:00.047+10:002021-07-19T13:42:00.047+10:00Luiz
yes indeed... pandemics have always existed ...Luiz<br /><br />yes indeed... pandemics have always existed and will continue to do so in this century, as Covid has shown us. What the Dancing Plague taught us was that the state authorities, Church, medical profession and ordinary citizens cannot shirk their responsibilities, or simply blame God.Helshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02849907428208235392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-84419731156762814312021-07-19T05:01:46.679+10:002021-07-19T05:01:46.679+10:00How very interesting, Helen, thank you!
Though I ...How very interesting, Helen, thank you! <br />Though I know some of the "events" you quote - so as the Piper& the children of Hameln, I never heard about "Dancing Fever" (though in Germany exists the term "Veit's Tanz" and is as you describe it).<br />"Mutterkorn", the fungus on wheat, is now used in medicine sometimes against migraine! <br />May I add two literary morsels to your theme? "Schwan kleb an" - is a German fairy tale where a young man with a swan under his arm walks through a city and everybody who touches sticks and has to follow...<br />and there is an American novel "They Shoot Horses, don't they?" about the strange competitions in the Twenties or Thirties where pairs danced and danced, and those who could do that longest, earned the money-prize. Brittahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10688373434576442657noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-29896461716883874842021-07-19T01:44:57.955+10:002021-07-19T01:44:57.955+10:00Boa tarde. Obrigado pela matéria esclarecedora. In...Boa tarde. Obrigado pela matéria esclarecedora. Infelizmente as pandemias sempre existiram. Luiz Gomeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07701551526214852309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-59326432221185175632021-07-18T16:26:02.066+10:002021-07-18T16:26:02.066+10:00Parnassus
I think that was EXACTLY the problem fo...Parnassus<br /><br />I think that was EXACTLY the problem for most people fascinated with the Dancing Plague. That dancing was for most couples a great event that led to hot sex, Quaker and Shaker religiosity, wedding feasts and wine not often on offer, best clothes and music. So why, we ask now, did it lead to absurd and destructive behaviour, and why did it attract so many other townspeople? That the Church would be anxious about sexualised behaviour in public was inevitable. Helshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02849907428208235392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-5140006595671151272021-07-18T16:12:03.550+10:002021-07-18T16:12:03.550+10:00Rachel
Thank you. The medieval Church spent a for...Rachel<br /><br />Thank you. The medieval Church spent a fortune commissioning triptychs because they wanted a standard format for altar paintings that would be popular with the congregation and educative for the clergy. This teaching may well have been in extremes, as you note, especially as every step of the design and painting was carefully supervised. <br /><br />When Bosch painted the Garden of Earthly Delights (c1505), the heavenly and deathly wings were clear. But if the central panel was a warning about the consequences of human immorality, it came too early for Strasbourg's 1518 catastrophe.<br /><br />Helshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02849907428208235392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-16479879717525281112021-07-18T15:53:18.743+10:002021-07-18T15:53:18.743+10:00DUTA
Epidemics of dancing where people danced unt...DUTA<br /><br />Epidemics of dancing where people danced until they died was VERY strange, yes! I might have been tempted to think the story was a drunken myth, except that people were repeating the details 1] in very different cities and 2] over 500 plus years!<br /><br />Poor Strasbourg :( This week the regional authorities announced they were opening an emergency containment zone to stop the Rhine overflowing after endless snow and rain. The catchment area of the Rhine, which includes Switzerland, Alsace and Germany, are most at risk of flooding and deaths.Helshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02849907428208235392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-15771787907709241942021-07-18T11:57:09.954+10:002021-07-18T11:57:09.954+10:00Hilary
Every epidemic came from a different virus...Hilary<br /><br />Every epidemic came from a different virus and a different mode of transport. At least with the rats, although they could travel easily from one country to the next on ships etc as you noted, they were visible. And AIDs was largely transferred by genital contact and blood transfusions. But what did doctors know about that flashed in for a year, killed millions and then disappeared. <br /><br />The best thing about Covid was that the vaccines took only 9 months to develop instead of taking quite a number of years.Helshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02849907428208235392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-78295268473439080922021-07-18T06:44:21.416+10:002021-07-18T06:44:21.416+10:00Hello Hels, England (and then America) had the Qua...Hello Hels, England (and then America) had the Quakers and Shakers, which had similarly induced and transmitted "dancing," although perhaps in not so extreme a form. About mass hysteria to the point of people doing things that injure themselves and others, just look all around you (with again a glance toward the U.s.).<br />--JimParnassushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08958901307538141468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-37838963258998038812021-07-18T03:53:08.573+10:002021-07-18T03:53:08.573+10:00In my studies of Hieronymus Bosch Garden of Earthl... In my studies of Hieronymus Bosch Garden of Earthly Delights I saw a connection between Dante's Divine Comedy prompted by my memories of Botticelli's illustrations of the poem which I had seen shortly before. Although the illustrations date just before Bosch's Garden of Earthly Delights I could not find any link that Bosch could have seen them. It is also difficult to establish whether Bosch could have seen a copy of the Divine Comedy. Apart from that theory, the triptych does illustrate the teachings of the church at the time albeit in extremes. I have not heard the dance disease aroey and found it most interesting, and how it has been passed down in history. The theory of hallucinations from eating rye bread that had gone off seems very feasible to me.Rachel Phillipshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16053924416805878169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-83446563133827343542021-07-18T03:52:23.390+10:002021-07-18T03:52:23.390+10:00Epidemics of dancing, dancing plague, dance till d...Epidemics of dancing, dancing plague, dance till death - involving peasants, soldiers, children, nuns - how very, very strange!!<br />And as always in those days, the church had its say on the mass hysteria dancing: 'devilish rituals', 'spirit possession'.DUTAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12979375799258978432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-64243913644677828252021-07-18T00:59:34.218+10:002021-07-18T00:59:34.218+10:00Hi Hels ... what an interesting post - about art r...Hi Hels ... what an interesting post - about art reminding us of earlier plagues. Of course for the Bubonic Plague ... rats could easily travel - not much has really changed. It will be interesting to see how we get through this pandemic as it takes its course. All the best - HilaryHilary Melton-Butcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17596532480645510678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-13549408710649467432021-07-17T19:28:42.524+10:002021-07-17T19:28:42.524+10:00Pipistrello
When I was doing Medieval Art History...Pipistrello<br /><br />When I was doing Medieval Art History as a student a very long time ago, I was particularly moved by the artists' depiction of plagues, deaths, the role of the Church and every other misery in medieval life. Thankfully those artists left us with very detailed records.<br /><br />See <br />https://www.dailyartmagazine.com/plague-in-art-10-paintings-coronavirus/ and<br />https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/08/18/542435991/those-iconic-images-of-the-plague-thats-not-the-plague<br /><br /> Helshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02849907428208235392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-33228814931705067912021-07-17T19:14:32.706+10:002021-07-17T19:14:32.706+10:00Andrew
I wouldn't have even mentioned English...Andrew<br /><br />I wouldn't have even mentioned English Sweating Sickness, except for two important factors important for us today. Firstly the five English Sweating epidemics came relentlessly between 1485 and 1551. Secondly its mortality rates were recorded as between 30-50%, worse than our current Coronavirus. Helshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02849907428208235392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-2484478522002233262021-07-17T19:08:53.042+10:002021-07-17T19:08:53.042+10:00Student of History
I think when communities were ...Student of History<br /><br />I think when communities were facing probable death, the authorities would grasp at anything to protect themselves. But why was the Church even relevant in an epidemic? Firstly the Church provided the only medical facilities in Europe: wards, medicines, doctors and spiritual care. <br />Secondly if sick people did bizarre things like dancing themselves to death, that was proof positive that they had misbehaved in their religious and moral lives. Let me repeat one line:<br />The Church was always suspicious of the strange dancing plague, seeing the dancers as a band of heretics who used madness to exercise their devilish rituals.Helshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02849907428208235392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-40065006433461439902021-07-17T19:05:31.094+10:002021-07-17T19:05:31.094+10:00For some reason I knew about this but had forgotte...For some reason I knew about this but had forgotten all about it. Truth really is stranger than fiction when it comes to these phenomena. There must be some tipping point of cumulative crises to really send people off the edge; but so interesting that you can come back to a state of normality so quickly - if you've not died of exhaustion beforehand for a case like the Strasbourg one ... I never know what to expect next from your blog, Hels!Pipistrellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07904613196101010022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-27139389139789730172021-07-17T18:59:25.583+10:002021-07-17T18:59:25.583+10:00CherryPie
Just in the last 200 years we have suff...CherryPie<br /><br />Just in the last 200 years we have suffered through Smallpox (1800-30), Russian Flu (1891), Spanish Flu (1918-20), Polio (1937-38), Asian Flu (1957), Hongkong Flu (1978), HIV.AIDs (1981-), Swine Flu (2009) and Covid (2020-) and probably other epidemics I can't remember. What an unbelievable tragedy. A new epidemic seems to arise every 30 years or so.<br /><br />I was going to suggest that the more people travel, the more people will die in each epidemic. <br />But then the Bubonic Plague killed 75 million–200 million people between 1347-50!!!!Helshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02849907428208235392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-65198349169406160922021-07-17T17:43:58.019+10:002021-07-17T17:43:58.019+10:00That was so interesting and sent me down the rabbi...That was so interesting and sent me down the rabbit hole of learning about English Sweat Disease. It gives me hope that a virus can simply disappear.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-63264785626871843032021-07-17T13:04:52.265+10:002021-07-17T13:04:52.265+10:00We understand that doctors didn't know how to ...We understand that doctors didn't know how to control leprosy or small pox. We can barely control epidemics today. But the Church blaming spiritual possession meant no humans were involved in the spread of the disease. Religious penance did not harm, nor did it help.Student of Historynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3067098918914268503.post-15988686126830004322021-07-17T11:49:19.660+10:002021-07-17T11:49:19.660+10:00Epidemics are caused by all manner of diseases.
W...Epidemics are caused by all manner of diseases.<br /><br />We should learn from history, our current one repeats the pattern. So why are we surprised!CherryPiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11788084724907992076noreply@blogger.com